Photo: Róbert Hegedüs
Mariann Őry
27/11/2023 08:00
- We are witnessing increased bloc building and decoupling efforts between the East and the West nowadays. In contrast, Hungary’s government argues for connectivity. Where is this tendency going?
- Being a small country – just like Singapore – Hungary should fight against this tendency of dividing the world into blocs. Within each bloc, countries, especially small countries, are subject to certain disciplines, which, in fact, would be curbs on our freedoms. On the level of ordinary human beings, what we want is secure livelihoods to be free to connect to those we want to connect to. I find this tendency of bloc building unhealthy, dysfunctional, and, to some extent, immoral because it plays with people’s lives.
- Do you feel that there is pressure on your country and, in general, on the Southeast Asian region to choose, especially by the US?
- The Chinese take a more relaxed attitude; they say if it is not against me, that’s fine. You are free to make your own friends. But the Americans are now embarking on a strategy to somehow surround China and slow it down. Some of us see it almost as an attempt at containment. But no country in Southeast Asia has agreed to it. We have to comply with some of the pressure because the US is a very powerful country and can inflict punishments on us. But people are not happy about it. And if the pressure is too strong, there will be a recoil. And we find comfort in the fact that we have a regional group, the ASEAN, which is bound by a certain degree of group solidarity and which gives us a collective buffer against being overly pressured by major powers. ASEAN is not really hierarchical; we look for compromise to deal with problems. It’s very different from how, for example, the EU works, with late-night votes and very animated, sometimes bitter discussions.
- What kind of international cooperations have a brighter future?
- There are many different ways. Each of us has our own wisdom about how to resolve conflicts. In Europe, in Western Europe, voting has been a part of the tradition going back to Greece and Ancient Rome, and it’s common to have people discussing bitterly, acrimoniously in senates and congresses. This is a European tradition; it’s part of its history and civilization. In China, by the time they vote, it’s almost an overwhelming majority because all the conversations and all the compromises have been made before that. So that when the time comes for voting, face is saved. So it’s a different way of doing things, but you can’t say which is right or which is wrong. It depends on the culture, the civilization that you spring from and what the people are used to.
- Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has often praised Singapore as an example of a very successful country which is going its own way; it has its own recipe for success. What do you think this recipe for success is for Singapore?
- In Singapore, we are not really familiar with Hungary, but having spent a few days here, I see a reflection of Singapore in Hungary. Now, the world is polarizing, but it’s not going to be a new cold war like during the period when the Soviet Union challenged the US and there was an Iron Curtain. I don’t think we’ll be like that. I think we’ll become multipolar. There’ll be big poles; there’ll be smaller poles. There are thick connections; there are weaker connections. Countries like Singapore and Hungary can play a bridging role. Even though you belong to one, we probably will be closer to another. We have our identities, which enable us to interact with people different from us in a free way which doesn’t threaten us because we know who we are ourselves. But if you have a weak identity, then you’re always afraid. But if we are rooted, we can be flexible. If we are not rooted, then we are all the time worried about balance.
- What signs are pointing towards the emergence of the multipolar order?
- Well, there’s the emergence of China. It is seen as a threat to American dominance in the world, but China is not going to replace the US because the Chinese culture is too inward-looking. China becomes another pole in the world. Then Europe can be another pole, even though it depends on the US for security, ultimately, even though there’s a deep civilizational connection. But even though the European pole and the American pole are close to each other, they are separate. Russia is determined to be a pole on its own; it has a large land area and plenty of natural resources. And India, even though everyone tries to court India, would build a separate pole, too. So, there’s almost nothing to prevent a great transition to a multipolar world. What is of concern is how these poles are connected. The European and the American poles will always be close to each other. China and Russia will also be close to each other. ASEAN will try to find space for itself as a grouping. I think Brazil, Africa and certainly the Middle East will also follow its own interests. For the US, the best position would be to be close to all poles and, therefore, play decisive with much less effort instead of trying to pull others down. Unfortunately, for the time being, the US doesn’t like the idea of multipolarity because it means it loses its dominance. This transitional period is now marked by instability; accidents can happen, and it’s risky for small countries.
The author is a managing editor at Eurasia